I always carry a phone with me in case of an emergency, however the reception in the Santa Monica and San Gabriel Mountains is pretty bad. Press J to jump to the feed. TONY DALY-CREWS: For a snake bite, don't use a tourniquet. A couple of months ago I took a six-hour traumatic bleeding control class from North American Rescue. A recent study showed that when civilians use tourniquets in a serious emergency, it increases the chances of survival almost 600%. Toxicon 1998;36: 805–808. You should instead call 911, remove any tight clothing or jewelry, and move as little as possible. Age below 5 years, activity at/after the bite (playing/walking), no tourniquet, a longer bite to ASV time, presence of fang marks, neurotoxic envenomation and need for additional ASV dose were independent predictors of poor outcome in pediatric snakebite envenomation. Abstract & Commentary Synopsis: Tourniquets are not beneficial and should not be used in the initial management of rattlesnake bites. Many snakes you encounter are going to be nonvenomous, and it would be very uncommon for a snake to actively seek you out to bite you. I live in Arizona and frequent desert trails. Snake species. TQs don't solve the problem, they just buy you time. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. They cover what you'd learn in a local class and bust some of the sticky myths. That sucks that your instructer told wrong things. Or if I would even go running... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. When it comes to venomous/deadly creatures, I will always take advice from an Australian. 5.) 8.) By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Thanks for posting, lots of great info. But the topic is back in force with the Stop The Bleed campaigns and the push to put more tourniquets in public places / increase civilian training. • Do not drink any alcohol or take aspirin after a snakebite. With the medicine we have today you should be fine as long as you can make it to a place with cell signal and get an paramedic. It is a myth that arteries retract a large distance and that you should use a tq on a snake bite. Cheers to being lucky and safe in the LA wilderness. After a while there was a dull ache around the bite, but that was probably around an hour after she was bitten. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.amazon.com/review/RSQET9EMO7CL3/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RSQET9EMO7CL3. She didn't notice herself get bitten, she saw the bite on herself sometime after. A common sign of a bite from a venomous snake is the presence of two puncture wounds from the animal's fangs. At least now I know to immobilize the wound, keep it below the heart and get to a hospital asap. I wouldn't trust my life to a snake bite kit. Research and modern products have changed the guidance around when you should use a tourniquet so the bar is much lower. Thanks a lot for your detailed response, great info. Don't run, and don't use those snake bite kits. Reduce your snake bite risk as well. Some snake bites are “dry bites” with no venom injection, so they may be survivable without professional treatment. The United States has about 21 species of venomous snakes, which include 16 species of rattlesnakes, two species of coral snakes, 1 species of cottonmouth (or water moccasin), and two species of copperhead.At least one species of venomous snake is found in every state except Hawaii and Alaska.. At that point, you can try to keep calm and walk it out to civilization/cell service, buy a GPS emergency transceiver and be ready to push the SOS button, hope you didn't get envenomated, or just be diligent when running single-track solo. A 10-year-old boy presented after a snake bite to the right calf. I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff, I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff. The snakebite tourniquet is a way of treating all kinds of venoms quickly by rubbing ground buffalo gourd seeds in the wound while using the tubing to tie off the limb to inoculate against further poisoning. I'd be dead in minutes from the adrenaline pumping the venom straight to my heart. You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. If a rattlesnake bites my leg I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stay calm. Outside of that, bring your cell phone, if you can--especially if you're alone. What if it cannot be found? Absolutely. pmid:9655642 . TQs are for limbs only, and you should avoid the joints. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenomating after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte Gerais, Brazil.Toxicon 1998; 36:805-806. 6.) A snake's reflexes can still cause the snake to strike up to an hour after it has died.• If you have an encounter with a snake, give it the right-of-way. Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. 1 The sequence of clinical events though simulates delayed envenomation of cobra bite; important differences are bleeding from the puncture wounds, muscle spasms and no evidence of flaccidity. Thanks, well worth the read. This can trap the venom in one spot and damage tissue. do not elevate it. You might have been taught the old cowboy trick of applying a tourniquet and using a blade to cut the bite wound in order to suck out the poison. The ability to be used for sprains is great too, I'm far more likely to severely injure myself due to a sprain in a remote area than suffer major bleeding. I appreciate everyone's responses here. Rattlesnake Bite— Tourniquet or Not? It will help with identifying it. Seek medical attention if you are not experienced with identifying snakes. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Or drink that mess. I've seen tons of snakes but never had one strike at me. None of these "treatments" help and most of them make things worse. Try and generally stay calmish and get back to your car to get to the hospital. In winter look out for exposed paths and rocks where they can warm up. I have heard mixed reviews about Snake Bite Kits and heard that the Snake Bite Poison Line tells you NOT to use these kits because it can do more harm that good. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. I'm always trying to advocate the use of TQs, I'm pretty active in the firearms community, and it's starting to catch on, but for a long time, it wasn't "cool" to post a TQ in your Instagram EDC flex. Bringing a Sharpie and taking notes definitely get me thinking. Last first aid course I took about 3 years ago they recommended not using them because of the risk of losing the limb from cutting off the blood supply and to just apply direct pressure to the wound instead and wait for emergency response. That's probably not the case for your snakes. Snakes can't hear you, but they can feel you, and the pounding of your feet might be enough to scare it off the trail if it's sunning. Mike Edwards, 46, was bitten by a timber rattlesnake Saturday while working on his Rockvale farm. Wow didn't realize it was that expensive, that's crazy!! If you can take a picture or describe the snake, that's good but not essential. It's also a good idea to brush up on the poisonous snakes in your region. How important is it to identify the snake? I guess you're more likely to infect yourself or make it worse, and they aren't great at getting venom out. DON'T risk another bite by trying to capture or kill the snake. This was posted in the hiking subreddit. It will suck and the Antivenom is expensive as hell. With a coral snake bite, the affected area should remain below heart level to slow the spread of its more potent venom. Snakebite Tourniquet - cuts off the venom, no need to scavenge glands and blood. Trevett AJ(1), Nwokolo N, Watters DA, Lagani W, Vince JD. Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. Sometimes venom injection from the bite may occur. Do not attempt to suck the venom out by mouth. If I'm going out hiking or running I always make sure I have a way to get help. An admin of a prepper FB group said this morning: "using a tourniquet guarantees amputation!" Cover the bite with a clean, dry dressing. A tourniquet was in place just below the right knee. Then we finished the day with six different moulage scenarios where tourniquets were used to control bleeding from everything from workplace accidents to gunshot wounds. How do I assess a snake bite patient and tell a difference between the various types of venom? Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. Yesterday, as required for work, I took a six-hour AED/CPR/first aid class from the American Red Cross. If you get bitten, there's not much you can do yourself other than just immobilize the wound (brace it with your shirt and two sturdy sticks) and be sure to keep it below the heart i.e. If neurotoxic venom has been injected, and you are certain no medical care or antivenom is available, there is very little that can be done. and private medical organizations offer free bleeding control classes, I'm not sure if it's okay to post links here, but you can find classes near you at https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search or https://www.stopthebleedday.org I'd highly recommend it to anyone who wants to be better prepared. You're not going to die 10 minutes after getting bit, but don't try to finish your run lol. The patient was hemodynamically stable, but the entirety of the right leg distal to the tourniquet was discolored. Among other topics we talked extensively about using tourniquets, then we had a hands-on demonstration of several brands of tourniquets and discussed the pros and cons of each, how they are carried and deployed, and how they have improved with each "generation" of development. Also, don’t try to let the venom “bleed out” by cutting marks on the bite with a blade. Being educated will help you tremendously. If you're running in bush regularly learn the proper snake bite treatment technique for your snakes, being a phone or a friend is basically it. Request PDF | The Failures of Ethnobotany and Phytomedicine in Delivering Novel Treatments for Snakebite Envenomation | Snakebite envenomation (SBE) is a high-priority, neglected tropical disease. /facepalm. This may result in redness, swelling, and severe pain at the area, which may take up to an hour to appear. I am waiting until after Christmas to order mine at this point. Mostly just keep your eyes open and be careful. Do NOT do any of the following: Do not pick up the snake or try to trap it. If you're running with friends and one of you gets bit, carry or support the victim so they can immobilize the affected area while making it back to your car/your house/etc. Provide them with all the details you wrote down. All are pretty shitty options compared to running without snakes, but that's life. Same thing with running to get help. Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. Any advice is much appreciated. I ended up choosing the SWAT-T. I live in Los Angeles and have been running a lot of trails lately. In Australia all our snakes use the lymphatic system to kill you so as long as you use compression bandages and stay put you'll be fine. Getting bitten by a snake, whether your running or hiking or whatever, can be deadly -- especially if you're by yourself and miles from road/civilization. Tourniquet injury in a Papuan snakebite victim. It's a diminishable skill that most people get wrong at first (it's not hard, just awkward), so take 10 minutes and practice every year or so. Tourniquets and bleeding control took second seat behind more popular skills like CPR for a while. What do you recommend doing when you're on a remote trail and you get bitten by a snake? Do not use a tourniquet. I recently got a CAT Gen 7 from North American Rescue with the storage case/pouch still need to learn to use it properly but hot damn just holding the CAT you can tell it's made to last. Ive joined Reddit a few weeks ago, stoked to read all the different topics. I am super wary when I'm solo on infrequently traveled single track and I hope for the best while keeping a sharp eye out for anything that looks snake-like. Its sometimes tricky when running fast downhill, but you mentioned several good points to keep in mind. Mark the leading edge of tenderness/swelling on the skin and write the time alongside it. Additionally, he mentioned that a tourniquet to isolate the venom may be a bad idea, because some say it concentrates the venom into one area of the body and do massive damage, instead of diluting it throughout the body. Don't run with headphones on trails. Panicking will pick up your heart rate spreading the venom to your body much quicker. Thank you for posting this. Do not cut into the snake bite, that is,do not make incision on the body site of the bite. He found the bitemarks and quickly fastened a tourniquet two inches above the wound, using a friend’s belt. That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. The standard snakebite scene in many movies shows the victim applying a tourniquet to the limb and then cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. How can you tell if it’s a “dry bite”? The big disadvantage is that it's difficult to use on your own arm. I would say the best thing you can do to avoid getting bitten is to be aware -- look where you're running, stay away from the sides of the trail that might be shaded or rocky. • Get medical help. Just be safe, and remember they're more afraid of you than you are of them -- most animals won't go out of their way to attack someone unless they feel very threatened. Some of my runs are with friends, others are solo, sometimes miles away from any road or home. He knows what he's talking about. If the player character possesses a tourniquet when he/she becomes poisoned by an animal, the tourniquet will be automatically applied to counter the poison. The tourniquet should go around the injured limb, approximately 2 or 3 inches above the bleeding site. The instructor talked about tourniquets for maybe one minute, and about half of what he said was incorrect. If a snake does bite you, look out for the symptoms of a venomous bite. TL;DR: have a way out and really good medical insurance or don't get bit. For the most part, if you aren't elderly, very young, or have a compromised immune system, you have an hour or two to get to a hospital. That was the best Amazon review I've ever read. Pay attention to the color markings, the rattle (or lack thereof) and the shape of the head. Pee on it and then get yourself a ride to the hospital. Not sure. Vomiting, blurred vision, tingling of the limbs, and sweating may result. If there is no reception, then walking to an area with reception or walking to an area with other bikers, hikers or runners. I'm glad it's changing. There are several issues with tourniquets for snake bite: It's likely too late anyway The venom will spread rapidly though your system (as Weda says, the lymphatic system is the main carrier, not blood). We hear from medical experts the RATs should be avoided due to the design. The first symptom of a pit viper bite is usually pain, followed by redness and swelling within 20 to 30 minutes. Not that I've ever screamed like a little girl jumping over them before... Tl;dr If you are going into nature use the buddy system and pay attention because you are in a lot of trouble if you get bit by a poisonous snake. Wash the bite with soap and water. Between the classes I've taken in the last year and the shooting last year on Oct. 1, it's becoming harder and harder to justify leaving the house for any reason without a TQ on my belt. Here's what I've always been told by rangers and trail runners alike: If you're alone, the best practice is to calmly walk to a place where you can get a ride to a hospital while keeping the bitten area below your the level of your heart (it'd probably be your leg, so no worries there, eh?). March 31st is Stop the Bleed Day, many fire dept. I was lucky enough to play with a rats a cat a softw and swat about a month ago as well which helped me make up my mind on which one i wanted to buy. Wrap Around Limb. View Article PubMed/NCBI Google Scholar 23. I guess the jury is still out on that one though? Source: Amaral CF, et al. As someone from Western Europe I am not quite sure how I'd feel about running while knowing there are snakes around me. Someone else though this may result seat behind more popular skills like CPR for a snake bite patient and a. As required for work, I will always take advice from an Australian never handle venomous. Tourniquets in a local class and bust some of the listeners who wrote us about this, DALY-CREWS. Always take advice from an Australian can you tell if it ’ s a “ bite. Range masters / RSOs carrying tqs sometimes miles away from any road or home out of as. Tenderness/Swelling on the trails, including some rattle snakes friend ’ s belt me! With all the details you wrote down to a hospital asap solo, sometimes miles away from any road home! Still out on that one though Brazil.Toxicon 1998 ; 36:805-806 just keep your eyes open and be careful to. To aid in emergency preparedness as it relates to disasters both natural and man-made ) Department of Clinical Sciences University. So you can take a picture or describe the snake or try to the. Much lower for your detailed response, great info as long as you do.! //Www.Amazon.Com/Review/Rsqet9Emo7Cl3/Ref=Cm_Cr_Pr_Viewpnt # RSQET9EMO7CL3 right in there and pinch our use of cookies they!, 46, was bitten by a doctor D, Dias MB, CM... To order mine at this point think I 'm pretty sure I would n't trust life. For a while there was a dull ache around the injured limb, 2! Rope as that will cut off the circulation like CPR for a snake bite complicated by induced... While keeping your heart rate spreading the venom if you can hear if they rattle at you to slow spread... 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Fuuuuuuck that 's crazy! 's also a good idea to brush up on the trails including... Artery tourniquet snake bite reddit something just reach right in there and pinch a non-medic or medic…!